2020 – 04 – April Coaching Hour – Flat Shooting Guns and the Challenge Move

…….April – Flat Shooting Guns and the Challenge Move…….

 –  Working from Home and the Importance of a Schedule

 –  Experimenting with the Challenge Move

 –  Brian’s New Stock: A Night and Day Difference

 –  More Advice on Transitioning to a Flat Shooting Gun

Gil: Welcome to the Coaching Hour, April 2020. We live in strange times. I don’t know what it’s like where you live, but in our town, people are wearing masks in the grocery store. They were giving out hand sanitizer before you can touch a basket. You got to wipe the gas pump handle. People wearing masks and gloves and there’s hand sanitizer at the gun clubs. It’s just amazing to me what we’re having to go through. But we’re still keeping our distances and we’re still coaching and we’re happy for what we have. Jack, what’s it like in California? 
 
 
Jack Flesher: Well, here in Silicon Valley, it’s strange, because this is a busy area. On any given day, at any time of day there, there are a lot of cars out and about or people out and about. And I could fire off a cannon on any of the main drags here in Silicon Valley and not hit a single person. I could shoot a thousand-yard bench rest target and not bother anybody. It is very strange. We have the same thing you do. If you go to the grocery store, people mask up. There’s hand sanitizer at the beginning before you grab the baskets. Our grocery stores have even gone to directional aisles, so all the aisles are one-way and you start at one end of the store and wind your way through the other end of the store. And then at the checkout stand there’s lines six, eight feet apart, so that nobody crowds in on you. It’s definitely it’s definitely an other-world experience. 
 
 
Gil: Wow. And all the gun ranges are closed out there? 
 
 
Jack: All the gun ranges are closed. We had Quail Point but it got shut down by the county. He tried to argue that a gun club was an essential business. And the county still shut him down. He’s trying to fight it, but this is California, and when you’re a gun business in California, you’re already a second-class citizen. So, it’s tough. 
 
 
Gil: Wow. Jenna, what’s it like in Wisconsin? 
 
 
Jenna: Well, I live in rural Wisconsin, but Kenosha is very empty. They closed all the state parks. We do have a few ranges open, which I’m lucky for. I’ve been shooting since I have not much else to do. Same here, though. Masks in stores, hand sanitizers. They closed all the ranges like once a week. So, wipe them down and clean them out. It’s very weird. 
 
 
Gil: Wow. Well, tonight, I want to talk to Jenna first in a few minutes about a conversation that we had a couple of weeks ago, I think. And I’m going to ask Jack Flesher to comment on the same conversation. I think I put up a forum post up on this – how you can see what not knowing what is coming next is doing to the brains in the people all across the country. The brain has to know what’s coming next or it gets really pissed off and really uneasy. I did something with Jenna, and she was good enough to keep a record of it and give us a report on what happened and how it changed what she was doing. And I’m going to ask Jack to talk about it. Then I’m going to talk about a customer that went to working at home about a week ago. I told him what to do and he didn’t do it. And he ended up doing what I told him he was going to do and wearing himself out. Even though he knew it was going to do it, he still went ahead and did it. 
 
Then I’m going to go to Doss. I’m going to ask Doss to give some reflections on what we’ve been doing with the challenge move. Jack, we’ve been trying it from the 10-yard line, the 20-yard line and the 30-yard line. And it seems the 20 to 30-yard line makes it a little easier to stabilize all the shots because the timing of your move away and the speed of your move away is not nearly as critical from the 30-yard line as it is from the 10-yard line. The jury’s still out on it, but I’m going to ask Doss to talk about it and I’ll chime in when he says something.
 
And then we’re going to go to Brian. Brian got his new custom stock from Neal Bauder today. And I’d like for him to get some reflections on his amazement and compare the difference in his K-80 when he had the Krieghoff stock with not as much cast in it. He was shocked at how much cast this stock had in it. And so, I just would like for him to talk about that a little bit. 
 
Then we had a customer Mike Strittmatter, who’s a lefty, that’s converging from a gun that was too short for him, and he was having to float everything to a flat-shooting gun. And I know several of you on have gone from a gun that shot a little high to a gun that that is shooting flat. I’m going to list some of the things. This is mainly for Bud McKenzie and Mike Strittmatter. Bud is in Canada. I talked to him today and I told him that I was going to do a segment tonight on the procedures that we have seen that work best when you go from a gun that shoots high to a gun that shoots flat. And Doss, I’m sure will have something to say about it. Brian will have something to say about it. I know Jack will have something to say about it. Jenna, you went from a high-rib gun that shot high to a low-rib gun that shot flat. So, if you have any “aha’s,” chime in on that toward the end of the show. 
 
 
Working from Home and The Importance of a Schedule
 
 
Gil: So, with that said, I want to flip it to Jenna. A couple of weeks ago, Jenna called me kind of in a panic. And it’s okay to be that way. Everybody on the phone call tonight has been in a panic on a phone call with me or Vicki sometime in the past. So, don’t be ashamed. And she was really concerned that she’d lost her timing. Nothing was fitting right.  Nothing was happening like it was when she was in Texas at the ranch. And she and I had a long talk. I’m going to let her pick it up from there and just kind of tell everybody what we talked about. And I may pop in a little bit for a comment or two, but I’m going to turn it over to you, Jenna, to tell everybody what we talked about and what you’ve done and how it’s changed, what’s going on in your life. 
 
 
Jenna: All right. So, me and Coach Gil talked about creating a schedule and structure because I felt very off. That was the week that school canceled and all sports were canceled. I went to go shoot, and nothing was working. And then I called Coach Gil. 
 
So, we figured out that it was most likely the lack of structure in my life, because everything changed just like that – just like it has for everyone. So, what I took from this scheduling is it really helped me mentally. And I realize that we can’t really focus on things that we can’t control. I kind of related it to shooting, because I didn’t know how else to relate it to. So, you hear shooters say, like, “rain is bothering me” or “it’s very windy.” But you can’t control those things. So, you have to try and go around them and create a structure and focus on something you can control. If you create a schedule, you can almost take the brain away from the panic of not being able to anticipate what will happen next with this whole pandemic thing. 
 
 
Gil: Let me add something there, Jenna. So, she was telling me what was going on and she was strafing me with words. She was talking so fast, which she does when she gets excited. But the thing that occurred to me is we live each day of our life in a very structured environment. We get up, we have coffee, take a shower, get dressed and go to work. We stop about 11:30, 11:45, take an hour and run and get something for lunch with a couple of office buddies or by ourselves. Then we come back and we’re in the office till 4:30, 5 o’clock and we drive home. We have supper, maybe watch a little TV. Look at the internet and go to bed. We all have our own structure in our lives. And that allows for you to be relaxed, because the brain knows what’s coming next. The forum post I put up was that you’re able to watch a real-time scenario of the human brain and how it reacts when it can’t, when it doesn’t know what’s coming next. 
 
And I think that that hit a chime with Jenna, because she didn’t know what was going on. She thought she was losing it. Not mentally, but she thought she was losing everything that she’d learned from a shooting standpoint, because her timing was off. And the problem was her life was off. So, we talked about it, as she said, and then she began to put some structure in her life. Now, tell us kind of what you did and how you put the structure in your life and what it did for you. 
 
 
Jenna: So, since I’m a student, I don’t really have work to do, but I have homework. I set a schedule; I would do my homework in this period of hours, and I’d work out another set of hours. I also have my own dog, so I’d go and I train her for a few hours and I’d fit in something like, I’m going to plant a garden. I got to change my oil. So, I’m creating the structure of timeframes. I’m getting up at eight o’clock every morning. Otherwise, I feel like I kind of waste the day. That might be late to you guys, but it just helps me get up and get more energetic. And sometimes, like every other day, on Mondays, I’ll do my homework first and on Tuesdays I’ll work out first, just to switch up a little bit. But I keep the same schedule consistent throughout every week. So, I know what day it is, which is a very good thing. 
 
But for me, being a student, it feels like a summer day where I have a whole structure set for what I’m doing during the week and during the weekend. And it actually feels somewhat normal compared to the before the schedule, I kind of was just doing whatever I want during whatever timeframe and I wasn’t very motivated. 
 
 
Gil: Are you getting more done? 
 
 
Jenna: Yes. I’m getting a lot more done, and actually in a shorter timeframe. 
 
 
Gil: Wow. Okay. Anything else you’d like to add? I mean, are you shooting some? Is your shooting getting a little better? You’re not able to shoot sporting all the time, right? You’re having to shoot skeet and trap too, or?
 
 
Jenna: Well, yes. But Winchester just opened their sporting clays. One other thing I would add is that since I have the time now to do extra gun mounts, to work with my gun more and watch more Knowledge Vault videos, I have gotten better and I feel a lot better as a shooter. Because I have that extra time and I’m doing that commitment through the scheduling. 
 
 
Gil: Interesting. Do you feel much more calm every day because your brain knows what’s coming next because of your scheduling? 
 
 
Jenna: Yes, I do. 
 
 
Gil: Okay. If we could just get your mother to do is, she would feel more calm, too. [Chuckles] I’m still working on your mom. 
 
I’m going to ask Jack to talk a little bit about what happens when you work from home, because he doesn’t work from home all the time. But he and I shared a little conversation. And then I’m going to share a conversation that I had with Tony Palisch about working from home. He just walked right into the trap, even though he knew what was going to happen. He didn’t pay any attention to it. And he got trapped in the working at home trap. So, Jack, tell me a little bit about your experiences in working from home periodically. 
 
 
Jack: So, the first thing, or an early thing I had to learn about working from home (and it does go to schedule) is when your office is in your home, it’s really easy to just keep working, or the opposite, to not work at all. And so, I had to have it to-do list, and I would spend basically my first cup of morning coffee going through my to-do list, getting it organized for that day. What did I have to get done that day and what did I want to get done that day? But the important thing for me was having a definitive finish time when I turned it off. Turn the work off for the day and did me, or did my family, you know, whichever time period it happened to be. Because it’s really easy just to keep working. You know, you can turn around and you started at seven o’clock in the morning on your first cup of coffee. And before you know it, it’s nine o’clock at night. You’re still in your office and the kids have gone to bed. Kids aren’t at home now. I don’t have to worry about them. But I have my own office now, and I actually go into the office and come back home when I’m done. Because for that very reason, that is the signal to end. 
 
I had a good friend, a manager. This was way back in the day in sales. He told me when he worked from home, even though he was working from home and didn’t have any appointments, he actually would put on his coat and tie and go into his home office because he knew at 5 o’clock he was gonna step out, take that coat and tie off. And that was his signal to end the day. I think, though, for me, I would say the biggest thing to the schedule is the to-do list so that you do know what’s coming. You do have some control. You don’t have control about everything that is going to happen to you or come in front of you for the day. But at least you have a plan laid out for what you want to accomplish. And I think that’s really important. 
 
And that to-do list will be a fluid document, right? It’s going to change during the day, perhaps based on circumstances, but at least you have a plan, a route, if you will, that you’re trying to proceed along. If that makes sense. 
 
 
 
Gil: Yeah, it does. And this dovetails nicely into why it’s so necessary to have a plan for the target and have a routine so that your brain can anticipate ahead of where you are. You know, we’ve talked about how the brain wants to know what’s coming next. And the clearer you can be for the brain to know what’s coming next. The easier it is for the brain to plan, put the circuit together and break the targets like you wanted to break the targets. 
 
At the Advance Class, we played the David Eagleman videos and everybody was fascinated with how the brain takes a sequence of electrical impulses from our senses and based on the sequencing of the impulses, creates our reality. It’s all about the brain being able to anticipate further and further and further ahead of where we are. That’s what the zone is. As Jeff said one time, when he’s in that zone, it’s all automatic. You look at the show birds and it’s just there. There’s no doubt what you’re about to do. And the brain pulls the circuits together and there’s no thought. You just know you’re ready. You stay in your routine so the brain knows when you’re going to call “pull” because it doesn’t like surprises. And as long as you’re in your routine, you call “pull,” the targets break and you just keep going. 
 
So, it’s much like what we’re experiencing right now. We’re all out of our routine. Vicki went to the liquor store this afternoon. Did you go to the big liquor store, Vicki, or did you go to Spec’s? 
 
 
Vicki: Well, I went to Spec’s. It’s a pretty big liquor store. Yeah.  It was weird. 
 
 
Gil: It was strange because a lot of the shelves were half full. 
 
 
Vicki: They were. 
 
Gil: We were talking about that tonight. People are eating more and they’re drinking more. So, at the end of this, they’re all going to have an alcohol problem and have to buy new wardrobes because they’re going to be overweight, because they’re not used to sitting around doing nothing. 
 
But anyway, I wanted to share with you something that I’d shared with Tony Palisch, who’s a project manager for Chevron, one of our customers. He began working from home two weeks ago. And I shared with him that he needed to make a schedule. It’s about the time I was talking to Jenna about this. And he said, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” And three or four days later we had a lesson. I said, “Well, how’s working at home going?” He said, “You know, I’m just really tired.” 
 
And I said, “Let me see if I can tell you what your schedule is. Okay? Because you don’t have to go into the office. You get up, have a cup of coffee, put on a pair of shorts and a t-shirt, another cup of coffee, brush your teeth, take a shower if you want to. You go into the office about 7:30, and you’re in the office from 7:30 ‘til 11:45 and you take 30 minutes for lunch, go into the kitchen, make yourself a sandwich. Come back to the office at 12:15 and you work till 5:00 or 5:30 and then you get up and take a 30-minute supper break and then you come back to the office and you work ’til seven or seven thirty.” And he looked at me like he’d seen a ghost. And he said, “That’s exactly what I’m doing.” 
 
I explained to him what I talked to Jenna about. I explained to him about how important it was to make a schedule and to keep his schedule when working from home as close as he could keep it when he was working in the office. Because if you’re not careful, the convenience of not having to get up to be seen in public and actually driving to the office, taking an hour and 20 minutes for lunch, coming back, getting engaged again and leaving about 4:30, 4:45, 5 o’clock, without all of that downtime, you’re going to end up working twelve hours a day. And after three or four days, nothing good happens. You get burned out. Jenna’s mom was doing the same thing. And I told Jenna to go talk to her, and at least have her go take a walk during the midday to get her mind off of it, which she did. And I think she’s able to handle it a lot better. 
 
So, when you start having to work from home, the schedule is extremely, extremely important. So, if you’re taking time off from work or working at home, make a schedule. This is why it’s so important when you’re planning your year to make a schedule of when you’re going to practice, when you’re going to shoot tournaments, when you’re going to take lessons. Everything needs to have a schedule, and it’s not so you won’t forget anything. It’s so that the brain understands and can know what is coming next. Because when it doesn’t know, it is absolutely not happy. 
 
I was talking to Bud McKenzie today up in Canada. And he is one of two people in his oil company that are working in the office. The rest of the people are working at home and I talked to him about that. And he said, “Well, what a great idea. I want to share that with everybody tomorrow.” So, it’s really important. I’m amazed at how often what we do comes back to the sequencing of events, which enables the brain to anticipate ahead of where we are. We keep coming back to that. 
 
I’m going to get Doss in here in just a few minutes. Doss and I have been shooting together along with Tony. And Tony, if you’re on tonight, speak up. We’ve been playing with the challenge move. And I shared with Doss and Jack why I think it worked so well, or why I think it actually works. 
 
I want to introduce you to two terms: Axial velocity and angular velocity. We’re talking about a quartering target 20 yards to the right, throwing straight out, not in front of the stand, but straight away in line with the stand, just straight away. That target, as you see it come off the trap as a crosser going very fast. But as the angle of that target’s line changes, the angle gets smaller, the lead gets smaller and the apparent forward velocity slows down. So, the angular velocity of the target is diminishing rapidly on that quartering bird. Axial velocity, on the axis, the barrel moving from the hold point to where the bird’s going. As you move, as you call “pull” and the bird comes off of that trap, then there’s a point in time when the axial velocity of the barrel and the angular velocity of the target coincide. And that’s when the target blinks or that’s when it’s stable or that’s when it’s time to pull the trigger. 
 
So, Doss and I’ve been working on that, and with Tony, Tony’s been using it a lot and they and I are amazed at how easy it is to produce that shot. But as I said earlier, we’re starting to realize that it’s a little better coming from the 20 or 30-yard line as opposed to the 10-yard line. Doss, what do you think about that? 
 
 
Experimenting with the Challenge Move
 
 
Doss: Well, Gil, you were saying we experimented with it a lot. I think I’m now nicknamed “lab rat” because we did a lot of experimenting.
 
[Laughter]
 
But I missed a lot of targets. I’m not sure where I miss them, but I miss them. But for me, the more we experimented, we zeroed in around about that 30-yard line. When I started my movement, it was really more forgiving. And I had less chance of popping the clutch is what I call it – moving too fast. Just started creeping as opposed to being at the 10. It seemed like I had a tendency to, as we shot more, whatever little anxiety, my tendency was to move too fast. And when we moved out, I never felt like I got jammed. I got more in control of it and things calmed down. It was much easier for me to repeat that maneuver. 
 
So, it got to the point where, around the 30-yard line, when I would start my move and call “pull” and start moving slowly, I’d never, ever got jammed. When I would start at the 10-yard line, if I didn’t move, I could pop the clutch and I’d get way out too far, and it caused me to stop and then all bad things started happening. So, it was a lot less forgiving of a move, I guess I’d like to say, Jack and Gil.
 
 
Gil: Yeah. Did somebody say they wanted to say something? If you want to speak, just announce your name and I’ll call on you. Okay? 
 
 
Bob: Bob Shannon. 
 
 
Gil: Bob, go ahead. 
 
 
Bob: Yeah. The big difference between those two is simply perception of angular velocity. The perception of angular velocity is much faster, the closer the target is to you than it is further away. And that’s what gets you into trouble. 
 
 
Gil: Well, and now that you brought that up, Doss and I are beginning to hone in on when to use this move and when not to use this move. If the trap is 20 yards to the right and it’s a quartering bird being thrown across the front of the stand, then the angular velocity does not bleed off very fast. So, you would want to put the gun out there near the breakpoint, call “pull” and catch the target at the same speed. 
 
But this move is designed for specific, really deep quartering birds that are not thrown across in front of the stand. They’re thrown directly away from the line between the trap and the stand, where if you wait to see them clearly, you’ll be shooting the bird at 70 or 80 yards. And so, it’s a way for you to move on the blur. As I say “pull, I’m starting to move. And from the 30-yard line, when I say “pull” and I start to move, I see the blur, and when the target gets clear, the gun’s already ahead of it and the speed has been equaled and I send the shot. It’s the closest thing to a magical experience that I’ve ever seen. 
 
So, Doss, is that what you feel like? 
 
 
Doss: Yes, I do. I watched Gil shoot it, and then I would shoot it. And it was amazing how things calm way down. And like I say, when I would do the normal challenge move, the starting movement wasn’t slow, where I could really try to duplicate it each time. I got in trouble a lot and I got jammed. When we moved to the 30, that took that out of the equation. It was amazing. 
 
 
Gil: Yeah. And it’s like you’re seeing movement. But nothing gets sharp until the axial and angular velocity are equal and the bird’s behind the barrel and they’re going the same speed and you send the shot and it just happens. 
 
I will share one more thing with you, then I’ll ask you if you have any more “ahas,” Doss. We got, I think 16 or 17 emails from people that came to the Advance Classes this year. And without exception, everybody was blown away with the challenge move and they have since used it. Some of them more than others. Unfortunately, Jack hasn’t been able to use it because he lives in California. 
 
 
Jack: Well, in fairness, Gil, I was using it before the Advance Class. But yeah. 
 
 
Gil: You’re right. You were. 
 
 
Jack: I haven’t touched my shotgun since the Advance Class. 
 
 
Gil: Well, you haven’t lost it. I’ll tell you that. Trust me. I’m not afraid. 
 
And here’s the other thing that Doss and I tried, which turned me on to axial and angular velocity becoming equal: we tried to use it on some fast crossing shots that were out at West Side. And we got sporadic results. Now, the one thing that Doss and I are doing (and Doss, I want to talk a little bit about this) on these big crossing birds, just starting to move, even though the guns at the 70-yard line, when you see the bird just starting to move away from the bird ever so slow, seems to make it easier for the gun to sync up with the bird in the magic lead at the magic time. Would you agree with that, Doss? 
 
 
Doss: Absolutely. I remember that big left-to-right bird that’s on edge way out there showed a little bit of belly. You could talk to distance and speed, but I know we had a big wind behind it was not slowing down. And we shot the challenge move a few stations before that when we got to it. And when I just got up there, I said, “Man, I know it’s going to take some air,” but I really didn’t realize how much it was gonna take. It was probably as far a bird as I’ve shot in a long time. Good bird. It was fair. You could see it. You know, it wasn’t playing eye tricks on you or anything. And for some reason I just decided, it was almost before I called “pull” I starting creeping right. And it was amazing how things happened. As soon as it would stabilize, I pulled the trigger. And the results were outstanding. 
 
 
Gil: So, let me explain this a little further. Doss saw me do this at the National Championship this year when we were shooting the main event. You remember standing behind me and I said, “watch this”? Because I did it by accident, and it was like, automatic, and I did it again. And there was a big left-to-right battue that was pretty good ways out on one of the courses. (Listen to this, Jack. You need to hear this.) So, you could hear the trap, but you couldn’t see the bird. And you didn’t have a big window to shoot it. So, I started over there close to the left side of the window. And when I said “pull,” I just started moving the gun, just creeping it. And when the bird popped into the scene, it was like it was automatic. The gun just went to the lead and the line and stabilized it so much more quickly than it would if I had been waiting with a still gun and it popped into the window. And the move is not a lot. It’s just breaking that “a body at rest tends to stay at rest” syndrome. Would that be a good description of it, Doss? 
 
 
Doss: Yes, and then I get caught when I pop the clutch and move too fast. 
 
 
Gil: Yeah. And we started training on a lot of different birds, and it will amaze you. Even though you can see the bird clearly, it’s still 25, 30 yards from the gun. Just start letting the gun drift ever so slowly away from the target. And as the target closes, to me, it becomes effortless to find the synchronization between the gun and the bird. I will have to tell you. 
 
 
Bob: Gil, I have a question for you. When you start that move, are your eyes also beginning to move? 
 
 
Gil: No, my nose is on the target. My head’s not even on the gun. And all we’re doing is just letting the gun float ever so slowly away from the incoming target. Now, Doss, you figure out your ratio, but I’m going to say when I’m doing that, it’s going to be a 50-yard target and I’m going to mount the gun 50 yards in front of the bird. And I see it and my nose is on it. And if the bird’s going 25 miles an hour, the gun’s going three miles an hour. Doss, is that a good ratio? Something like that? 
 
 
Doss: Yeah, that’s pretty close. To Bob’s question, I would start my gun, you know, it’s mounted, it’s on my shoulder. I’ll let the gun just start drifting right. Just barely moving with my nose right at that machine. It doesn’t move until that bird comes out. But I actually started my gun moving before I ever call “pull.” Just barely started creeping it. 
 
 
Gil: On that long bird. 
 
 
Doss: Yeah, on that long bird. And I never got beat. I shot in front of it one time. But other than that, it was amazing. 
 
 
Gil: Yeah. And it’s something I think you all ought to play with. I used it a lot this year at the Nationals to calm me down, because I’m not used to shooting tournaments. I get a little excited. And whenever I hear that trap and I can’t see that bird – every time it was a long crossing bird, I waited, I called “pull,” when I saw the bird, the gun just started barely moving. And as the bird approached, it seemed that all the gun had to do was just accelerate to the speed of the bird. And it was more like getting on a freeway from a rolling start or from a dead stop. It just made it easier for the brain to put the two together, Bob. 
 
It’s amazing. I can’t wait ‘til you try it. I want you to call me once you try it. But, now, you can’t mount if the bird’s 50 yards in front of you. You can’t mount 10 yards in front of that bird and do this. You’ve got to be out there waiting on it. And as it comes, once you see it, you can start moving the gun super slow. I mean, a worm that’s been stepped on crawling across a block of ice. That’s how slow it’s going to move. And you’ll find that as that bird closes, because if the gun’s moving just a little bit, wow, does it make it easier to merge with the speed. To me, it’s virtually effortless to merge with that speed that way. 
 
So, Doss and I did try the challenge move on more shallow quartering birds. And it didn’t work. And the reason it doesn’t work is the angular velocity decreases so quick that there’s no way for you to stabilize the shot. Only shallow quartering birds. It slows down so fast, you’re better off putting the gun out there, almost under your breakpoint, and watching the bird run right up the side of the barrel and just easing up and converging with it from underneath. You need to try this on different birds just to see for yourself. What you have to do and what your perception is when you do it.
 
Any other questions on the challenge move? Then I will move along. 
 
 
Brian’s New Stock: A Night and Day Difference
 
 
Gil: We’re going to go to Brian now. Brian, would you like to wipe the smile off your face [chuckles] that you had today while you were shooting? 
 
 
Brian: Yeah, I’ve been smiling all day. I’m absolutely blown away with this. It’s the first time I’ve ever had a gun that fit, and we didn’t have to put it on the sander. But it absolutely blew me away. That’s all I can say. Everything was stable today. The mount was very forgiving. And it just it’s absolutely amazing. I had no idea how much this would change my performance and how effortless everything is when you don’t have to worry. And I come to find out with this stock, the way it’s set up, I was really having to bury my face in my other one. And I didn’t realize I was doing it. I’m just blown away still. Can’t wait to go shoot again tomorrow.
 
 
Gil: [Chuckles]
 
 
Doss: I had Brian send in a picture of it a minute ago. It’s a good-looking stock. I pinged him while we’ve been on this phone when you said he got his stock. Brian sent me a couple of pictures of it. It’s good looking. 
 
 
Brian: Yeah. It is.
 
 
Gil: Well, I’ll tell you one other thing. When Brian got it today, he looked at it and he saw how much cast on there was in that gun. And son, I think you were shocked, weren’t you? 
 
 
Brian: Yeah, it looks like a kayak paddle, the way that it’s curved. Or a pirogue. It was shocking. 
 
 
Gil: So, compare what it’s like to have a stock with cast that’s actually built into the stock so that it fits you and a stock that’s straighter but that I’ve cut on and rolled the cheek piece over.
 
 
Brian: It’s night and day difference. With the new stock, you don’t even have to put your head down. It’s just automatic. Everything is automatic. It hits the same spot every single time and makes the mount very, very forgiving. 
 
I haven’t mounted a gun in three months, because I haven’t had one, and I was a little rusty on the first couple shots. But then, I mean, you saw it. Out of a hundred birds, I chipped maybe three or four. Everything else was in the center and was just absolutely amazing. If you had told me it is going to be that dramatic, I would’ve said, “No way, no way.” With as many guns as I’ve shot, I was absolutely blown away how effortless it makes everything. 
 
 
Gil: It’s an amazing thing. I think Doss would tell you the same thing, wouldn’t you, Doss? 
 
 
Doss: Absolutely. When I went out today, I’ve got that 20-guage Krieghoff I shoot pretty well and I shot it first. I hadn’t shot it in a while. And I got to a few targets. It was a quartering target, and a little deep and I was I was trying to use the challenge move and all that. Not a lot of success and blah blah blah. And I’d just reached out and grabbed my 12-gauge, which still has the pattern stock on it, but it’s all built like cast off. And all of a sudden, those targets were no problem. Difference between the gun fitting and the gun kinda fitting. 
 
 
Gil: Okay, so, I want Brian and Doss, and anybody else for that matter who’s gone from a gun that shot high, or that didn’t fit him quite as well and eventually shot high, to a gun that shoots flat to tell me how much different it is. What would you recommend somebody do that’s going from a gun that shot 60/40 to a gun that shoots 50/50? 
 
Doss, why don’t you start and then Brian, you chime in and then maybe Jack, Okay? 
 
 
Doss: Okay, I’ll jump in first. I’ll tell you, probably the biggest area of change for me was, you know, we should always shoot a lot of drop in targets, a lot of falling targets when we practice. And my perceived amount of lead on those falling targets became a lot less. 
 
 
Gil: Yeah. Big time. 
 
 
Doss: That was probably the biggest thing for me. 
 
 
Gil: Not having to put your head in the stock as hard, maybe? 
 
 
Doss: Absolutely. 
 
 
Gil: On a longer bird? 
 
 
Doss: Yes, absolutely. 
 
 
Gil: So, Brian, what do you think? You worked with Mike today, who was used to shooting a high shooting gun. You got him to shooting your gun, and then he shot his gun really well. What did you have to work with him most on? Keeping his nose on the bird?
 
 
Brian: Keeping his nose on the bird and what actually online looks like. That’s where the “three o’clock, nine o’clock” comes in. When I said, “three o’clock or nine o’clock,” he was just like, “Oh, okay. Online is online. And this is the way it’s supposed to look or should look.” And once the brain understood it, I mean, it was just throwing targets. And he got caught up in the illusions of the curls. 
 
But the biggest difference for him is that he just didn’t know what online was. He doesn’t have a big inventory. And with the inventory he had, he didn’t understand why he’d shoot and he’d hit one and why he’d miss one, because he didn’t have a baseline. And when I programmed him on three o’clock, nine o’clock, that’s where his baseline came in, and his consistency went up. 
 
 
Gil: Boy, it’s like night and day. 
 
 
Brian: Yeah, that’s the big thing for people when they transition – what online supposed to look like. 
 
 
Gil: Bud McKenzie, you need to be listening to this. And if you would like to talk to Brian about what he’s been doing with people going from a high shooting gun to a flat shooting gun, I’ll be more than happy to give you his phone number and you can call him. 
 
So, Jack, you went from a gun that shot a little high to a gun that shot flat out about a year and a half ago, didn’t you? 
 
 
Jack: Yeah, about two years ago.
 
 
Gil: What was your biggest “aha,” or the biggest thing you had to overcome or reprogram?
 
 
Jack: Well, I think the biggest thing Brian nailed was that three o’clock and nine o’clock being online. It’s okay to have the bead right on the path of the target. None of this “having the bead under the path of the target.” And the big “aha” for me was all of a sudden, technical targets. So those no spring quartering, looping, curling and dropping all at the same time, right? All of a sudden, they were no problem because I could see the line and all I had to do is keep my muzzle on the line and the target smoked. The only thing I had to struggle with (and believe it or not, it took me one practice session) was steeply rising trap targets, if I wanted to shoot them quick. And I had to teach myself to look through the gun to see them. Because now I wasn’t coming up under them and floating them. I had to cover them. 
 
 
Gil: And that was only trap targets from the left. From the right, you can see them. 
 
 
Jack: I can see them because I’m a lefty. That’s correct. It’s those trap targets that are coming up under the gun from the left. I sat and learned looking through the gun. And it’s that looking through the gun that sounds strange if you’ve never done it, but any two-eyed shooter can do it once you get the hang of it. And it actually made trap targets after that just become – they’re like in the bag for me now. I just – knock on wood, rarely miss a trap style target. 
 
But, yeah, and the same thing Doss said. I would over-lead droppers for a little while. And that was probably the hardest thing to learn, right, Doss? To shorten up that massive amount of lead I was giving dropping targets. But other than that, I adapted pretty darn quickly and I would never go back at this point.
 
I guess if I shot trap only, I might try a gun that was 60/40 or 70/30, I don’t know. But I’m not going to shoot trap. Heck, we had a sporting clay tournament here earlier, before Covid, just before the Advance Class that had 50 trap doubles. I’ve shot trap doubles exactly twice in my life and one of them was that shoot. And I won the trap doubles section of the tournament shoot, shooting a flat shooting gun, which you should not be able to do if you talk to a trap shooter. So, there you go. 
 
 
More Advice on Transitioning to a Flat Shooting Gun
 
 
Gil: Interesting. Well, I want to go through a few things and I’m going to ask you guys that have made this switch to add a couple of things. These are specifically for Mike and for Bud McKenzie. Mike’s here in Houston, and Bud McKenzie’s in Canada. 
 
When converting from a high shooting gun to a flat shooting gun, it’s important when you address a simple 20-yard crossing target that when the gun comes up underneath the line, like you used to have to hold it there to hit it and you miss it underneath, it’s important for you to say “old sight picture.” New sight picture is level either at three or nine o’clock. And you can look in the Knowledge Vault and look at the Kill Shot Reviews and it’ll show you what online really means. 
 
But it’s important you use the phrase “old sight picture” when the brain puts the gun instinctively below the line. It’s going to take anywhere from a flat to four flats before it sees enough level sight pictures so that you convert over instantly. And that’s where you have to be patient. You have to be really patient, because the first two boxes are going to be really lonely. Your brain’s going to want to put that gun under the line and you’re going to start missing it under the line. Especially if you were to shoot a 20-yard floating crosser that only took a foot of lead with a modified choke. If you’re not on the line, you’re gonna miss it underneath. So, stick a modified in there and grow up to be very patient with your brain. It’s trying to give you what you want it to give you. It’s just been confused on all the previous shots, easy targets with no compound lead, something with less than two foot of lead with a modified choke. And it’s designed, again, to make you miss if you hold under the line. If you use the cylinder choke on a 20-yard bird, you’re not going to learn the sight pictures as quickly. So, you want to use a modified choke on a simple 20-yard crosser, either from the left or the right. You’re going to have to learn both sight pictures. 
 
The other thing that I have found that’s helped a lot of people is to go to a pattern board with a couple of mods in it and shoot a box of shells from 30 steps away. Mount the gun, pull the trigger. Mount the gun, pull the trigger. If you want to get it fast, do that every time you go to the range, and your brain will begin to see what it needs to see to put that shot right around the center hole of that pattern board. Single targets; don’t shoot pairs. Shoot single targets with prediction and execute the prediction. Execute the predicted line. And see if the prediction is detailed enough. Stop trying to break the target. If you try to break the target, you’re going to switch brains, and your brain’s going to put the old sight picture on it. Predict the new sight picture and execute the prediction, especially with the thought of “three o’clock or nine o’clock.” Make sure that you don’t use any sight pictures with compound leads. Make them flat. All of your sight pictures previous to now with the gun that shot high were compound leads. Now it’s very simple. It’s either three o’clock or nine o’clock. I can’t stress enough that your prediction be detailed, especially with respect to the line. 
 
And any of you guys going from a high shooting gun to a flat shooting gun, if you have any problems, pick up the phone and call me. If you can’t get a hold of me, ask Becky to have Brian call you or Vicki call you and we’ll go over that with you. But I hope that helps you, and Mike, I hope that helps you. So, Vicki, do you have anything else to add about going from a high shooting gun to a flat-shooting gun? 
 
 
Vicki: Not really, other than the what y’all said. The biggest thing I think is to tell yourself, “the new sight picture,” and that will put you immediately online. Otherwise, you’ll go under it every single time. So, be patient. I think it’s probably a really important thing. Because everybody thinks “Well, it shouldn’t make any difference.” Well, it does if you’re looking at inches. But I just think “Online, new picture.” And that seems to help everybody. 
 
 
Gil: Did you use that phraseology with Mike today, Brian? 
 
 
Brian: Yeah. We’re re-zeroing in the rifle, or resighting in the rifle, to what is actually three o’clock and what is nine o’clock. And once his brain understood what it was, then that’s just when he took off. He was really concerned with the spacing between the bird and the barrel, and therefore his muzzle awareness was too much. And once he understood that the gun just belongs out there in the periphery, if he doesn’t get involved in the space, then the brain will just put the gun in the right spot every time. He didn’t have to help it. 
 
 
Gil: Well, I will share with you that – and I haven’t been to any of the regional shoots. Jack, have you been to any of the regional shoots? 
 
 
Jack: Not yet this year. 
 
 
Vicki: There’s not going to be any. [Laughs]
 
 
Jack: Yeah, I am signed up for the Northeast Regional, but I don’t think I’m going to go, because it’s early June. And I don’t think I’m going to want to fly out there, because that’s right at ground zero for the worst of the worst of this coronavirus out there. New Jersey, M&M, right below New York. And yeah, so I probably won’t do that. I may go to the North Central. I’m signed up for the Western and the Open got moved out a year. 
 
 
Gil: I think they’re going to cancel them all, myself. 
 
 
Jack: I think they probably will. I don’t know. 
 
 
Gil: Well, the reason I was asking you if you’d been to some of them is it appears to me whenever I go to a course or when I go to the Nationals, at least half the targets are made to be shot on a downward trajectory. And if your gun shoots high, you got to double the lead. Would you agree with that? 
 
 
Jack: I would agree with that. You know, usually a technical target isn’t still underpower, right? It’s coming down somewhere. 
 
 
Gil: Yeah. 
 
 
Jack: At least half are that way now at a regional to separate the scores. 
 
 
Doss: The regional I shot just last year in Mississippi at that Providence Hill, that was the same case there. A lot of downward trajectory targets. 
 
 
Gil: Yeah. So, it’s increasingly more important now than ever to go to a flat shooting gun, simply because of all the dropping targets. I mean, you’re always guessing on the dropping target, if you’re right. And that’s not a good place to be. 
 
So, okay. Jenna, Jack, Brian, Doss, Bob, everybody, thank you for chiming in tonight. That’s all I’ve got to talk about tonight. So, this will be up tomorrow on the website. And we’ll have a printed copy up in 10 days on the website. So, you can either do a screen share and read it, or you can download it and listen to it. So, thank you guys for participating. And until next month, stay apart. Stay safe and shoot if you can. Talk to you later.